Marketing Minutes 2006-08-15

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OpenAjax Alliance Marketing Committee meeting minutes 2006-08-15

Attendees

  • Andre Charland <acharland@ebusiness-apps.com>
  • Cary Liu <cliu@mercedsystems.com>
  • David Frankel <david.frankel@sap.com>
  • Dominic Porter <dominic.porter@edgeipk.com>
  • Gary Horen <ghoren@bea.com>
  • Ian Wenig <ian@zoho.com>
  • Jochen Krause <jkrause@innoopract.de>
  • Joseph Becker <bjoseph@us.ibm.com>
  • Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
  • Mason Ng <mason@yahoo-inc.com>
  • Nolwen Mahe <nolwen.mahe@sap.com>
  • Ted Thibodeau <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

Absent

  • Alexei White <awhite@ebusiness-apps.com>
  • Chris Erickson <chris.erickson@icesoft.com>
  • Coach Wei <coach@nexaweb.com>
  • Dan Roberts <dan.roberts@sun.com>
  • David Boloker <boloker@us.ibm.com>
  • Dion Almaer <dion@ajaxian.com>
  • Dylan Schiemann <dylan@dojotoolkit.org>
  • Erwan Paccard <epaccard@ilog.fr>
  • Garbrand van der Molen <garbrand@javeline.nl>
  • Jason Wadsworth <wadsbone@thefrontside.net>
  • Javier Gallego <Javier.Gallego@softwareag.com>
  • John Janetos <jjanetos@laszlosystems.com>
  • John Lilly <lilly@mozilla.com>
  • Jonathan Daly <jdaly@nexaweb.com>
  • Joonas Lehtinen <joonas.lehtinen@itmill.com>
  • Jose Carrasco <Jose.Carrasco@in2.es>
  • Luis Derechin <luisd@jackbe.com>
  • Marc Englund <marc.englund@itmill.com>
  • Mark Gally <mgally@mercedsystems.com>
  • Matt Durham <matt.durham@softwareag.com>
  • Paul Kim <pkim@mozilla.com>
  • Raju Vegesna <raju@zoho.com>
  • Rob Vonderhaar <robv@jackbe.com>
  • Sami Ekblad <sami.ekblad@itmill.com>
  • Sharat Chander <sharat.chander@sun.com>
  • Thomas Stoesser <Thomas.Stoesser@softwareag.com>
  • Todd Hay <thay@adobe.com>
  • Torsten Preissler <tpreissler@innoopract.com>
  • William Shulman <will@mercedsystems.com>

Agenda

Agenda item requested by Gary Horen at the start of the meeting:

    • Licensing policy for material produced by the alliance


Topic: Next face-to-face-meeting

      • Are people available Oct 5-6 (Thurs/Fri) after AJAXWorld?
      • Any volunteers to host the meeting?

?: Good idea to have it backed up to AJAXWorld

DF: How about on Wednesday on last day of conference?

JF: Likely to be a full day or full two days needed for OpenAjax Alliance. We might have a lot of big topics to discuss. Likely to be nearly as key of a meeting as the one in May.

JF: Any problems with the proposed dates?

(no objections)

JF: Anyone able to host in Silicon Valley? Maybe up to 100 people.

Nolwen, David: SAP is a maybe, but inclined to think it can't

JF: OK. Don't need to decide today. Just wanted to get people thinking. Several big companies in Silicon Valley that are members.


Topic: AJAXWorld magazine update

JF: Articles were sent yesterday. Thanks to everyone for surprisingly large amount of review and contribution. Any comments or questions?

?: When will the articles be published? At AJAXWorld conference?

JB: Yes, they will be available on the floor at AJAXWorld conference in October.

Topic: logo and web site

JF: Thanks to Dylan for great work on volunteer basis with logo and prototype web site. I took his home page markup, extracted the top part via Photoshop cropping to create the banner image. Then I attempted to fill out the rest of the site. Need original graphics to see what fonts he used to see if I can match fonts beter. All done yesterday. Just a first draft. Probably lots of things that need fixing.

Cary: What about use of colors outside of the web site? Some of the color choices will be difficult to use in other contexts.

JF: Dylan is aware of using the logo in different scenarios and has talked about using the graphics on top of a black background, for example, but I don't know his full vision. Please send email to the Marketing committee with your full set of questions.

Cary: Will do.

JF: Any high-level feedback on the home page? What we had targeted was releasing it around Aug 31.

?: Did a good job with the intro statement

JF: That was just copied/pasted from the various documents we have been pounding on this summer.

JF: The member list at the bottom is there for the initial launch. One of the big selling points in the short-term is the list of member companies. In the future, when people know who we are, I was thinking of moving the list of members to a members page.

JF: Dylan wanted a rotated list of member company logos at the bottom. But that requires approval for use of company logos, which isn't going to happen by Aug 31, and requires programming, which will be hard to pull off, especially given only one more phone call on Aug 30.

?: That brings up the question of why we aren't using any Ajax on the web site

JF: We talked about this in a prior phone call and concluded that it is OK to not use Ajax, that we shouldn't use gratuitous Ajax.

?: But shouldn't we show the technology we are promoting?

AC: Anyone have a compelling example for the how page?

DF: How about a feedback area on the "contact us" web page?

someone else: Isn't there a danger of making Ajax look weak if our example isn't compelling enough?

JF: That was one of the points that was made. Two things. First, other sites about Ajax don't use Ajax. Second, we talked about favoritism complications where anything we try to do might show favoritism to a particular technical approach or particular product.

?: Maybe include an area on the page that talks about things that will be coming, such as Ajax examples.

JF: Sounds like a good idea to me.

Ian: Apple does a good job of showcasing widgets for OS/X. What if we had an area where people could post things?

?: Couple of simple examples to showcase Ajax. XHR vs simple submit. So people don't confuse Ajax with DHTML.

?: Showcase Ajax patterns?

JF: There is a distinction between educational and promotional in terms of how things would appear on web site. We have a mission to be educational for the Ajax community, such as defining common vocabulary. Examples that enhance the education are one class of content and totally consistent with our mission. The promotional side of Ajax of best practices or patterns or showcasing products is more complicated because we have to be even-handed. We talked about Ajax patterns at the face-to-face and generally felt that it was better for others to address that issue, but that was more of a general statement and not fully binding on what we should be doing.

Ian: But preventing the ability to showcase Ajax products is against our spirit of community openness.

JF: I wasn't against showcasing products. In fact, I am personally in favor of providing the ability to showcase member products. I am just saying that the educational pieces of the web site need to be even-handed and avoid showing favoritism. I am thinking that there might be a different area for showcasing member products and technologies which each member can control with only a loose oversight to make sure that whatever they show is consistent with OpenAjax.

?: Might be good to have the member area offer a categorization.

JF: I was thinking something similar.

JF: But getting back to short-term decisions. It sounds like people want to add something to the web site that hints that there will be Ajax examples in the future.

MN: Want to promote Ajax not member companies.

JF: Yes. Primary mission is to promote OpenAjax. Secondary or maybe even tertiary is to offer a means to promote technologies and products of members, but even this would have primary motivation of promoting ecosystem by showing what OpenAjax-compliant products and technologies are available.

AC: Get rid of subheads under about. Just have About go to Overview.

(general agreement)

?: How about adding a menu item "Roadmap"?

(discussion about how roadmap isn't really what this is about and how we don't have a roadmap yet)

MN: "Futures"

(general agremeent)

JF: I will make changes with a new Futures page and send email. Everyone can respond about Futures page. Also, please review and respond via email. Only one more phone call before we go public.

JF: Dylan suggested we consider a dedicated machine.

?: How about a yahoo group or google group for emails? Easier on us.

AC: Don't need a dedicated machine yet.

(general agreement that we can use yahoogroups for email lists. Jon will investigate and discuss with Interop group tomorrow to check their opinion)


(ADDED BY JF AFTER SENDING EMAIL TO GROUP WITH MINUTES ATTACHED - Forgot to include in the minutes that the implication of the above discussion is that we can keep Kattare as our ISP because the main feature that Kattare does not support, mailman, can be achieved via yahoogroups.)

Topic: OK to provide quote for OpenDomain.org press release on donation of openajax.org?

      • Here is latest proposed quote: "OpenAjax Alliance is very excited and appreciative of Open Domain's URL contribution which enables a more intuitive web address for the alliance and the community," said Jon Ferraiolo of IBM, speaking on behalf of the OpenAjax Alliance. "OpenAjax Alliance is an open industry collaboration dedicated to developing and expanding Ajax technologies, so donations like Open Domain's help the organization continue its growth and campaigns."

(general agreement this is OK)

JB: But we need to see press release content before we agree.

JF: Yes. We will use generally sound approach to PR before actually providing the quote. But assuming that everything is as expected with their press release, it is OK to provide the above quote.

Topic: Licensing policy for material produced by the alliance

Gary: wants to know about our licensing policy for materials produced by the alliance. Would like to make use of some of the diagrams for presentations he is doing in late Sept. Perhaps the materials could be available and labeled "courtesy of OAA".

JF: We have talked about this before. General sentiment is that our content is publicly available and we want to encourage reuse. We have talked about our drawings in particular as something we hope the industry would reuse.

AC: Need a clear policy.

GH: First idea is to use Eclipse Public license.

?: What about Creative Commons?

JF: My action to research and propose. High priority. Need this in time for web site. The IP agreement that is in process might deal with this.

JF: There has been talk about putting annotations on pictures that say that we made the pictures.

AC: Maybe Copyright OpenAjax Alliance. Ability to reuse with attribution.

JF: We have talked about more liberal. Not require attribution.

AC: Fine with that, too.

DF: What about the more general IP policy?

JF: Soon. Should be available within a week. Lots of progress. Have had non-IBM lawyers reviewing it. So far everything looks good. Then everyone reviews. Maybe Q&A sessions.

GH: If it says Apache or Eclipse licenses, will be a no-brainer.

JF: Absolute agreement. Right now the agreement says Apachev2 for all source code.

?: Promotional benefits if we can say that our content can be used but requires attribution.

GH: But lots of benefits if we stay simple and use a standard licensing agreement.

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